Diane Abbott – A statement from Jewish Voice for Labour
Labour has withdrawn the whip from Britain’s first Black woman MP following a letter published in the Observer in response to an article about racism in the UK, as reported by Skwawkbox.
See our response below.
(Corrected 8pm April 24 to make clear Diane Abbott has had the whip withdrawn. She has not been suspended from membership of the Labour Party.)
The withdrawal of the whip from Diane Abbott is yet a further attack on our freedom to debate very important issues in the Labour party. Her original letter was not antisemitic and the way some critics have rounded on her as if it were is cynical and unhelpful.
As a prominent Black Labour MP she cannot avoid discussing the way Black and Asian people are in the frontline of racist oppression – and the way the Black experience has been downplayed in the Labour Party. This was identified by Martin Forde in his report as a hierarchy of racism. The wording of Diane’s letter was unfortunate in that it appeared to compare forms of racism. Diane has rightly apologised for this.
All racism is abhorrent – and she has always fought against it. Historically Jews have been major victims – most notoriously in the time of the Holocaust. As Diane says in her tweeted apology, “Racism takes many forms and it is completely undeniable that Jewish people have suffered its monstrous effects, as have Irish people, Travellers and many others.”
The fight against racism today – certainly in this country – is centred on defence of Black and Asian people. This in no way discounts the experience of Jews. Jewish people in this country of course face prejudice and racism, in particular the Haredim, who in their dress are highly visible, but it is not institutional, structural racism that fundamentally affects their prospects and outcomes.
Yes, Diane’s letter should have been drafted with more care – but this is no ground for suspension from the Parliamentary Labour Party.
I wish I could support her over this (as I have done for her and Jeremy Corbyn on almost every occasion). But the wording of her letter – which you don’t actually quote – was that Jews, Irish and Roma suffer from prejudice but nor racism. It was wrong, inexplicable for someone of her experience, unnecessary and extraordinarily inept.
Martin Forde’s Report covers how the Labour Party’s *hierarchy of racism* plays out. Is he a racist now, as well?
Yay!
She only said what I too think and believe. Certainly today we jews suffer no direct racism as such but are the subject still of much prejudice. Diane is often clumsy in her remarks but we all know her and this cannot be grounds for suspension. I suspect this is part of the purge of the supporters of JC – dare we now even mention his name?
Sadly they hsve been gunning for her for a long time.Fiercely supportive of Jeremy Corbyn, a passionate honourable MP a victim herself of insidious racist and cruel comments by members of her own.party as revealed in the infamous leaks still barely acknowledged. A sad day for the Labour Party one of many sad days one suspects there are more to come.
It makes no difference to Diane or Jeremy, they will both win their seats at the next election
Thousands will campaign for them
Anything that helps a hung parliament with independents, the Socialist group, SNP, Libdems and Greens holding the balance of power is fine by me
Given the letter cites historical precedent, mentioning apartheid and the US civil rights movement, it’s fair enough to argue that to forget about the Holocaust as an example of racism and then to compare antisemitism to prejudice against redheads–and particularly in the light of the Labour antisemitism crisis–is an egregious, suspendable error. I’m sure she is not antisemitic and everyone can make their own minds up about whether an apology should be accepted, but this response from JVL is incoherent–quoting the apology not the original letter in mitigation–and plain wrong: Dianne Abott precisely did discount the experience of Jews and that’s why she apologized.
This is so deeply sad, not a strong enough word. Thank you JVL for putting out such a measured and calm statement
JVL makes some correct points, but does not draw the necessary conclusion – that Diane Abbot and Jeremy Corbyn should defy the Labour machine and take the battle to the working class of Hackney and Islington, by standing AGAINST the imposed Labour right wing candidates. They should use this opportunity to launch a new party, so that they both stand under the same banner. And they should call for all members of the SCG with any conviction to join them.
Relativising the prejudice and racism experienced by different communities is never going to be a particularly fruitful exercise, but, as a woman of Jamaican heritage brought up in West London, surely Diane Abbott’s opinion is valid. What has she to apologise for? The apologies need to come from those media outlets spouting nonsense about a Labour antisemitism crisis.
The world is quite willing to believe lies when told by the Elite but when words of the good are taken as not fitting they are pounced upon and a hanging takes place. More to come.
Personally I’m glad I can now vote for a candidate who represents my beliefs without having to vote for a party that doesn’t.
I think that Dianne should have had someone to add their thoughts to this comment , as we all need , sometimes . I compare it to what Ella Rose stated , while she was not aware that she was being recorded . Her comment was that she could actually take out Jackie Walker ( Another Jew ) . A meeting was quickly arranged , she apologised at the interview , and it was all forgotten . Dianne , also quickly apologised , but , although far less severe as Ella Rose`s comment , it was neither accepted , or deemed less severe . I write as the son of a holocaust survivor , and someone who is Irish . I did not disagree with Dianne`s comment , just in its wording .
European Jews and the Irish are indistinguishable from other Europeans but that doesn’t mean that they can’t be the victims of racism because racists see inherent differences that actually don’t exist. If we are to get through this bitter dispute we have to emphasise our common humanity and say that all racism is equally bad whoever is the victim. The Labour Party should take ALL racism equally seriously and it is clear from the Forde report that this isn’t happening. Why haven’t the Labour Party members who subjected Diane Abbott to the most abhorrent racism also been suspended?
Please look at history. Jews do not benefit from being treated differently to everyone else. We are all equally valuable and we are all entitled to equal respect. That is the way forward for the Labour Party.
The Board of Deputies implying that anti Semitism is somehow worse than other racism is not helpful to say the least.
A very well worded response and I agree with everything in it. This is despite the fact that I’m neither Jewish or black and don’t live in England, let alone London; but I would vote for her hands down if I was in her constituency (or in Jeremy’s). Wish we had a MSP like her up here.
Is there something wrong with me in that I could not find fault with Diane’s words? Coming from a family of white south African Jews she is right to say that this demographic did not experience racism the way the black majority did and likewise in the US too. So why then is it perceived that to state these realities somehow delegitimises the horrific atrocities Jewish people have faced? Even writing this in response to a JVL article I find myself policing my own thoughts, as no doubt in some quarters what I’ve written will be seen to be unacceptable.
Well, “racism” is a misnomer anyway. The consensus of scientists is that we do not belong to different “races”, we are all members of one human race but we have different ethnic groups. But is is surely valid to say that black people have suffered more and for longer than, say, Irish or Jews or Travellers. It isn’t antisemitic to say so, but it might be considered somewhat insensitive. Her apology and clarification should be considered sufficient. I think the JLM are demanding her expulsion. What I can say is that as the son of a Kindertransport immigrant, whose relations perished in the Holocaust, I am not hurt or offended by Diane’s comments and I see no reason why anyone else should be.
So the mp who has suffered from more racist attacks than any other has had the whip removed by a ‘Labour leader’ not because she is racist but because she is on the left!!
Bit rich coming from Starmer’s Labour party machine that completely ignores the findings of The Forde report on racism within The party and then comes up with the recent nasty racist attack ad on Rishi Sunak which just blew back in it’s stupid face, only serving to further sully The Starmerite ‘leadership’ which they seem to achieve with great ease on an all too regular basis.
Very poor and very sloppy judgement by Diane Abbott who should, ‘should’ have known better.
Maybe she’s a bit shot, tired and exhausted along with other Socialist Campaign Mp’s who just seem ‘gagged’, lost, disorientated and incapable of forming any kind of effective fight back against the relentless ongoing offensive/Purge by The Labour party machine against what’s Left of The Labour left still in The party.
Time to move out and move on.
The party machine doesnt need any real excuses or justification to pick off Socialist campaign group MP’s one by one and purge(expel,deselect, block, smear etc etc etc) any party member or councillor for that matter who doesnt fall into the party line whatever that is… other than OBEY.
Coupled with the utterly crass and pathetic cancellation of The Platform film produced documentary ‘Oh Jeremy Corbyn : The Big Lie ” by The South West TUC who justified the cancellation/censorship of the film by saying:
“We believe showing this film would not uphold the TUC’s values nor contribute to the safety of staff, stewards and attendees”.
What are they trying to conjure up here ?
Images of violent running street battles of hard core Starmerites fighting Corbynista guerrilla fighters at the Festival, spilling into the old back streets and ancient fields surrounding Tolpuddle and beyond ?
Time for the formation of a New Party of The Left based on common sense,community,cooperation,collective solidarity, integrity, genuine Democratic Socialist values and principles,Socialist policies and a Socialist vision for The Many not The Few !
I’m reminded of what Georgi Plekhanov once wrote:
‘I realised more and more the usefulness of the old and tested rule that any writer should unswervingly observe, namely, that one should first carefully peruse the proofs of one’s articles and only then send them to the printers, since corrections made after publication of an article rarely help matters.’
I really feel that someone who is a longstanding Labour MP should choose her words a lot more carefully. Of course, an equally crass statement by a right-wing Labour MP would not have led to him or her being Starmerised, but we on the party’s left should not give the party leadership an open goal like this.
Of one thing we can be certain. The real reason for her suspension was not the wording of her letter. Neil Coyle, who was personally racist and offensive towards a Chinese person had the whip restored to him. Trevor Philips, who believes Muslims are nation within a nation and much else besides was reinstated.
It is clear that Dianne Abbot’s letter, however clumsily it was worded, was a pretext for the suspension of the whip and that is why John Launer is wrong to not give her his full support. White people suspending Black people for racism is itself suspect.
Dianne Abbot was clearly wrong about Travellers not experiencing state racism. They have been hounded from pillar to post. She is probably correct today about Irish people though this was not the case 30 years ago. Racism of course changes and its target changes.
However Dianne is clearly correct about Jewish people. If antisemitism were a form of state and institutionalised racism does anyone serious think Grant Schapps and the Right would be at all concerned? When Suella Braverman hands over £15m to the Community Security Trust to combat ‘antisemitism’ does anyone seriously think that that she is being anything but disingenuous given her track record in respect to refugees.
This is both an attack on the left and on Black people. It is regrettable that instead of defending the distinction she made between prejudice and racism Dianne chose to follow Corbyn and apologise. We know how that ended up.
A brave attempt to defend the indefensible. It might work for some lowly branch secretary. But for a leading left MP to commit political suicide like this is incredibly damaging to the cause of socialism.
John Launer, she spoke about Travellers, not Roma.
I understand some of her comments, but they were clumsily put. When there are visible signs of difference, you spend the whole day carrying the difference around with you, and the risks attached to that. As a white person I remember attending an anti-racist rally in West Bromwich – the Black Country is known for its high levels of racism. The organisers warned us as we left to remove any badges and stickers to avoid being beaten up by the far right. I remember thinking it was lucky that I didn’t have to think about removing my skin. That has stuck with me still 40+ years later. However, prejudice and racism against other racialised white groups is also there but in different forms (e.g. accent, nationality, religion, lifestyle). Although they can “get by” or “pass as”, albeit it is with with the sacrifice of denying part of their identity. But the stereotypes are different – they come with different iterations and they impact on those that are victims in different ways. My partner was regularly stopped by the police just for walking along the road, and in one day he was stopped 5 times by police on a 1/2 journey from Birmingham to West Brom because he drove a BMW – it was his skin coulour that caused that everyday harassment. We have an ongoing example of that in the current Sunak/child sexual abuse attack ad, which bought into the typical far right racist tropes that South Asian men are soft on child sexual abuse – a very clumsy piece of racism. Will Starmer be suspended for that?
Baited. Much like Starmer attacking Sunak for failing to jail sex offenders, this is primarily motivated by appealing the kind old ‘red wall’ voters and their tabloid fed prejudices. Abbot is red rag to these ignorant bulls, a left wing Black woman from inner city London, the embodiment of the imagined woke, ex PC, culture they perceive as at the root of a soft over tolerant state and their subsequent disempowerment. By attacking her the Zionists are appeased and the bigots of old Labour’s working class are encouraged. Progress types will sneer and talk of electability, but if you’re elected appeasing bigotry you must appease it in power else your tenure will be short and pointless. As it is you can only get elected appeasing bigotry. Which isn’t democracy, is it?
“Her original letter was not antisemitic…” Really? to quote it at length
“…It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships”
No mention of the 6 million victims of the Nazis but instead Jews are lumped in with “redheads”. I do not compare racisms to make a hierarchy – why did she?
Sorry – not good enough. The letter that went to the Guardian/Observer was appalling. Just before people start sharpening their quills – I do not believe it was antisemitic, but it was crass, crude, shoddy and ignorant. And utterly indefensible – which is why I feel so let down by your statement somehow trying to ‘explain’ it so that it turns into something less dreadful than it was.
Let’s just stick to Gypsies, Roma and Travellers: these comprise one of the most persecuted communities in the country. Denied stopping places, access to clean water, proper garbage disposal, adequate education for their kids. And all, absolutely all as a result of legislation (both national and local) and brutally discriminatory policies from government, police and local authorities. In other words, exactly what constitutes systemic, institutional, structural discrimination. If black or Asian people were treated like that, we would call it racism without a moment’s hesitation. But in the letter, such persecution is equated with prejudice against redheads! The sort of trivialising of racism that we would expect from an especially stupid Tory or right wing Labourite. How come? As far as I can see, what distinguishes GRT people – and leads to their persecution being so trivialised and dismissed – is their WHITE skin.
As I said – I don’t think the letter was antisemitic, but it was utterly predictable that it would be fallen on with glee by Starmer’s henchmen. Which makes its issue from a left MP’s office so negligent as well as outrageous. So what on earth was going on?
I have just read an interesting Facebook posting from someone who says she knows Diane Abbott and doubts very much that the letter was written by her because of its style, language and content – a much more likely author would be a staff member or intern. She also says that MPs’ offices are very pressured and chaotic places, and the letter could well have gone out by error, accident, or some other act for which Abbott wasn’t at all personally responsible. Which, she also says, fits with Abbott’s immediate apology and complete absence of any attempt to justify or explain the letter in any way – unlike your statement. I see too that Reuben Bard-Rosenberg has just posted a similar theory. I hope both Reuben and the person I mentioned first are right.
In any event, this is exactly the sort of issue that should be dealt with politically not administratively. Abbott shouldn’t have been suspended, she has already unreservedly apologised. She should get the Whip back and anyone who wishes to tackle her over alleged antisemitism in the letter should have to do so by political argument, which I trust Abbott could deal with.
Nevertheless, it doesn’t stop me being furious – and so disappointed with you. No justification should have been put up to ‘explain’ such stupid and trivialising rubbish.
When did nationalities or religions become races? Surely Jews or Cristians or Muslims follow a particular religion and can belong to a specific race. But say, a negro could choose to follow any of those religions but couldn’t claim he or she was no longer a negro but now belonged to a Jewish or Christian or Muslim race. Whereas a member of any nationality or religion can and do change their status but cannot change the race they were born into.
Making a distinction between prejudice and systematic racism could have been a useful contribution to debates, and no-one is better placed than Diane Abbott to understand the systemic racism suffered by Black people in the UK. It’s all the more unfortunate that her badly worded letter seemed to make the claim that Jews have never suffered from systemic racism. As an experienced politician she should have known better than to hand ammunition to those who will gleefully cite this as an example of left-wing antisemitism.
Just because Dianne has been subject to racism does not mean she can not be herself or deny the existence of it to others.
The arrogance and offensiveness of claiming that only a certain group can be subject to racism and everyone else is simply on the wrong side of prejudice is outstanding.
For JVL to never accept that maybe someone they support has crossed the line does not sit well for the organisation. It becomes a propaganda factory seeing only itself as the arbiter of truth and victomhood
Diane’s letter to the Guardian was apparently an early
draft – sent by mistake so why the Guardian published it
is beyond me.
The discussion reminded me of an article I heard about
in the New Yorker https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler
It is argued that Hitler was influenced by the racism
of the US as exemplified by for example the treatment of the
indigenous peoples and that the Nazi Race Laws were inspired
by this.
The hypocrisy both of those times and today astonishes. The
Nazis were criticised for these Race Laws while at the same
time immigration quotas in the US (and Europe) limited the number of families allowed a visa. Many were unable to escape
and subsequently murdered in the Holocaust.
Diane Abbott has the worst online abuse of any MP – amounting to ten times as much. Worst of all was the fact that she was abused in the most sickening way by Labour staffers. This had
emerged from the leaked report and this was remarked on by Forde in his response to it. ..
And she received NO apology ….
John Launer: whether your assessment is correct or not, whatever criticism can be made about Diane Abbot’s letter, the point is that it said nothing to warrant suspension from the party. That is using a very big hammer to cracka very small nut. It is really distressing to learn that now even a handful of misplaced words can earn this kind of draconian punishment. If she made a mistake at all, it was to unwittingly and in all innocence give the party heirarchy an excuse to do what I suspect they have wanted to do for a very long time. Her fault, if such it be, is a minor one of little significance in the long run; their faults and failings are as destructive of democracy in this country as anything the Tories might do.
I completely agree with the above statement. Black and Asians are taking the brunt of the racist agenda at the moment and have been for quite awhile. It won’t be long before the rest of us start getting it in the neck more and we should all stand united against that emerging threat.
We all know Diana didn’t mean what she has been accused of
She is not that type of person
She does sometimes says things or writes things without thinking or checking them before releasing a statement or writing an article for a paper
She has done the right thing and apologised and even said what she wrote was not what she meant in writing it
But the way the Media and some MPs have attacked her for it you would think that she had killed someone
I never seen any of those in the Labour Party being Condemned or Suspended for the racism that was going on towards her and other Mps in the party And were revealed in the leaked report
So were was Sir Useless the Leader of the Labour Party then And why did he sit on the Forde report and ignore the findings of it when it didn’t reveal what he wanted it to
Antisemitism just like all forms of racism is wrong and should be stopped at all costs
And the media are also just as bad for not telling the truth and staying silent instead of revealing all of the facts and not just the ones they are told to
No one should ever forget the Holocaust and the suffering and pain those men, women and children went through before they were killed in those death camps
And should always be taught in schools to educate all future generations of just how bad the Holocaust was and should never be allowed to happen again
Just like all other forms of Racism and suffering people have gone through because of who they are or the colour of their skin which should also be addressed in school’s and colleges to show that we are all human beings in a world were there is already enough cruelty and hurt towards others without creating more .
I have no problem supporting Diane Abbott’s statement.
The English language already had words bias, prejudice, and bigotry. The subsequent invention of term ‘Racism’ instead related precisely to the historical and structural condition of the Black experience—peoples who were once owned and colonized; whose original lands, culture, languages, and more were taken by force; and who, in modern society, have little or no collective institutional or financial power to combat their ghettoization in, predominantly, the lower reaches of Western class systems.
In support of my previous post on structural racism, I’d just remind readers, there is no British Jewish equivalent of Black Lives Matter crisis deaths at the hands of the police, including Jermaine Baker, Sheku Bayoh, Leon Briggs, Rashan Charles, Kevin Clarke, Mark Duggan, and Trevor Smith. Similarly, those people who believed Tony Blair’s poisonous ideology of collective Muslim guilt have among many such crimes firebombed Bishopbriggs, Glasgow and Finsbury Park, London mosques. Finsbury worshipers later experiened a lethal van attack outside the mosque. There is no Jewish equivalent of murdered 82yr old grandfather Muhammad Saleem whose killer planted bomb devices on three further Mosques. Sikh dentist Dr Sarandev Bhambra suffered an attempted beheading attack just for being mistaken of a Muslim. And does the immense volume of attacks on Muslim women wearing the Niqab, in the street, have to be pointed out?
Death by racism is normal but simply disagree with supporters of colonialism and apartheid and that is media treated as far worse.
I agree that Diane Abbott was careless in her letter – angry and maybe on some level wanting the inevitable to happen and be pushed out. The thing is, she is truthful and really tries to grapple with this difficult issue, and it certainly does need grappling with. It would have been better to say that any group can be treated in a racist way – using the colour of their skin or hair or some other quality like culture, age or gender to vilify and exclude them – but that the term originated to identify a very specific form of discrimination, whereby some races are superior to others.
Absolutely disgusted with this decision to take the whip from Diane Abbott. John Mc Donnell will be next targeted.
When was speaking the truth wrong. To me the evil word Racism should never be used as a weapon against any one. But it is. We all live in a World were none of us are unable to voice an opion. And Diane has suffered a lot of At the hands of other over the many years,and knows what it is like to be bullied for her Colour but it has not stopped her from speaking her mind. Are defending the people. That is why she is so respected.
All this is about the fact that she know longer fits the bill of this New Labour Party. Are a friend of Jeremy Corbyn, Now to me this so Unjust. If only it was so easy to get rid of the likes of Keir Starmer. Blair, Mandelson and Evans. Who believe that members can only have a say when they want our Membership money, Donations or sell Raffle Tickets ( just sent ours back ) How can the Unions keep putting money into the New Labour ( lighter shade of blue ) when it will not even support the strikes of ordinarily working folk. We want justice for Diane Abbott.
When we look at the demographics of those persecuted during the Holocaust there were many other than Jews that were subjected to nazism.
Humans persecute and oppress other humans, this has to stop ????
Great woman!
Certain individuals on the right of the party have been rounding on Diane for decades. I can’t see them letting her back in. Another sad loss to democracy.
Racism = prejudice + power. In present circumstances in our present situation, who has to change their name to obtain a job interview? I dare to say it, but Jews are not ‘powerless’ in modern society. Historical genocide is that, including the genocide of slavery and the middle passage. She shd just have addressed our current circumstances.
Starmer ‘s mission is to castrate the Labour party.
His miserable, wet opposition to our current excuse for a government puts him firmly in the Tory enabler camp.
At best he is TORY LITE and worst he is a TORY plant!
He has consistently lied about his plans and intentions for the Labour party since his selection.
He shows ZERO support for the millions of ordinary workers currently fighting for decent pay and conditions.
Together with other like minded “labour” MPs he is steadily purging the party of anyone with the slightest hint of a socialist bone in their body.
Basically he is an TORY infiltrator.
He IS the ENEMY WITHIN!
I, and thousands of others have left the party since he became, and for want of a “better” word, leader.
It’s high time @UKLABOUR got rid of him!
In her letter to the Observer, Diane Abbott did not incite against any group of people. She offered her opinion, right or wrong, about the intensity of prejudices against various groups. Her suspension/forthcoming expulsion from the Labour Party is not only unjust but plain stupid: the LP message is that one should not think/debate.
Clumsy, perhaps, but is what she did really not true? No Irish person, Jewish person or travelling person should have to hide who they are and blend into the crowd because of discrimination but they have that option. A black person cant just become white. This is racism. It’s another form of discrimination. Why point this out? I think there is a distinction but all discrimination is vile and should be challenged. Living with it is slightly harder when you can’t change your skin colour. This is where racism differs from cultural discrimination. It’s not that difficult to understand the distinction come on?
Moments like this make me proud to be a member of JVL. The unpleasantness of the press reportage has overtones of exactly what she, somewhat clumsily, was trying to get across.
A few minutes ago the BBC radio’s “Today” programme had alfrfeady twisted Diane’s letter to say that she believed that Jews had not suffered from racism in the past.
That said, the Observer letter was wrong and I am happy to see that Diane has distanced herself from what it actually says – not just what our opponents say iy says.
JVL has rightly been loud in its criticism of the “hierarchy of racism” adopted by the Laboour leadership and Diane’s apparent inversion of that framework is disappointing.
I take it that what she was trying to say – and this is valid – is that, notwithstanding isolated and sporadic expressions of antisemitism, such views are not systemic in today’s Britain. In this sense, Jews, as a group, do not suffer from discrimination.
As for her inclusion of attitudes to travellers, I despair.
Yes, Diane was wrong to insist that racism is directed only against black people, and she acknowledged and corrected that error.
That however did not deter the defenders of the racist state of Israel – the two faced Starmerites , the misnamed Jewish Labour Movement, the self appointed Board of Deputies, the hacks of the Jewish Chronicle etc from baying for her blood.
They responded with the dull predictability of a wind-up toy. Their friends and probable paymasters at the Israeli Embassy will be more than happy with the turn of events.
FIRST RESPONDER {Blue Lights flashing
I’ve read Diane Abbott’s letter
And it’s stupid. Wrong, inaccurate
And absurdly reasoned. I can
Be just as senseless when I’ve
Been drinking. Not about Jews
The Irish or the gypsies. But
About Australians and Harry
Secombe. I’ve no idea why
I pick on Harry. I’ve never
Met the lad. He doesn’t appear
Unpleasant. I think it might be
Bonhomie. His happiness
In all seasons. Could it be
His Welshness? Am I like
My Grandad, Jim
He really didn’t like the Welsh
Owain Glyndwr, what a bastard
Australians are easier
Like Yorkshire folk
Or Liverpool fans
But even so, I wouldn’t
Put it in a letter
When Diane spoke of the difference between racism and prejudice, however clumsily, was her think influenced by descriptions from sociology such as this? https://www.thoughtco.com/racism-vs-prejudice-3026086
“Prejudice refers to a preconceived idea about a particular group, while racism involves an unequal distribution of power on the basis of race.
“Sociologists have found that racism has led to a wide range of detrimental outcomes for people of color, including unequal access to jobs and housing, as well as an increased risk of being a victim of police brutality.”
This was true, all too horrifically for Jewish people too in 1930s and 40s Germany, and at other times and places. It is still true for the GRT community in the UK though, as well as for people of colour,
She has made the suffering of all these groups into. a competition Someone of her education and standing should know better
I agree. There certainly is a hierarchy of racism. Braverman for example should have been expelled for her Islamophobia. RW press and political grifters piling on the first black woman MP is typical of the current fear and reluctance to debate prejudice and institutional racism towards the asian black community.
Salutations to you all at JVL for your once considered & measured response to a badly constructed article, draft or not. But there it is, shock, horror, D Abbott has erred and made a mistake like a human! For pity’s sake she has suffered more than most, she has more than earned the right to forgiveness for a few mistakes.
Think this has made me come to the tough conclusion that perhaps the MSM were right all along….Jeremy Corbyn and his inner circle were/are a bunch of racists. There was no smear. They are antisemites.
Have any of the staffers at Labour Party HQ ever been suspended for the racist and mysogonistic remarks they have made about Diane? I agree with JVLs statement and hope it gets a wider airing. As for Diane, solidarity with you.
Diane was naive in not realising that any comments that she made around racism, antisemitism, prejudice, picking on people etc , would bring out the big guns from anti Corbyn supporters, anti lefties, and anyone who hasn’t understood ,or read , the Forde Report. I am sorry for her.
who conflate
As a descendant of Irish Travellers, Diane Abbot’s remark that Irish, Jews & Travellers “do not all their lives experience racism”, in contrast to black people, struck home. I can’t help thinking how my life experience might well have been rather different with Black grandparents. However, I think it was staggeringly poor judgement for such an experienced politician to expect that nuance – or her Labour whip – to survive the inevitable furore, which has given fresh energy to the cynical nonsense about anti semitism in the Labour left.
Diane was responding to an article about equality research in the UK. The article emphasised findings that Jews and travellers experience the most racial abuse and assault. Her response was a clumsy attempt to challenge whether most of this is really racism rather than prejudice and to point out the lifelong experience of black people.
The book on the research is open access and should be read to see what the survey it report really says:
https://bristoluniversitypressdigital.com/display/book/9781447368861/9781447368861.xml
Thank you JVL for being so even handed in your report of Ms Abbott’s clumsy attempt to differentiate between racism and prejudice. I think it may be time to reflect on the banality of hatred. I hope I won’t cause anyone any upset with my thoughts.
I find the term “hierarchy of racism”unhelpful, because I don’t think Ms Abbott, or Martin Forde meant to imply that black people suffer more than other victims of hatred, racial or otherwise. Jewish people are found in many races, there is no single Jewish race, so it is semantically incorrect to describe antisemitism as racism because the hatred they experience is based on their cultural and religious origins, not their race. See what I mean about the banality of hatred?
To describe all hateful acts against others who are different as “racism”, whilst well meant, actually ends up lumping many different forms of hatred under one catch-all term, and accidentally dilutes the meaning of the word racism. What all victims of hateful acts suffer from, without comparison or hierarchy, is Hatred And tackling Hatred and it’s little sibling Intolerance, in all their forms is where we should all be, singing from the same hymn sheet.
Any excuse to get rid of a lefty and give a safe seat to a crony.
Deeply dishonest and very Stalinist
At the slightest hint of the accusation of antisemitism people run for cover because most people don’t understand what it means. The mere accusation has been weaponised, in certain quarters, to deflect criticism of abhorrent acts of human rights abuse, which ultimately acts like a ‘cry-wolf’ call which can mask and deflect from more serious acts of abuse. Any form of racism is abhorrent but there has been too much attention to certain categories and not enough on others. Why don’t we just call it racism wherever and whenever it applies instead of giving it confusing names?
yes badly phrased letter But out come the anti Corbynites and the nasties in Starmer so called Labour party ., Mann say she should go she has had her day ect. He is a particularly unpleasant PERSON to say the least. There is a hierarchy of Racism in UK that she was trying to point out. She clarified this . Not sure that she needed to apologise really. But with the various anti socialist groups around one has to be very careful. It does begin to appear that anti Semitism is becoming a form of McCarthyism. This can only feed into right wing extremism which is now increasing world wide let along in UK.
Pointing out the existance of a ‘hierarchy of racism’ is usually a criticism that racism against some groups is not being treated as seriously as racism against some other groups.
Unfortunately, Diane seems to have said that there should be a hierarchy of racism, and even that some forms of racism aren’t really racism.
To use the historical example of the slave ships and not mention the antisemitic and anti-gypsy genocides as examples of racism displays double standards.
Now the right is accusing the left of having a hierarchy of racism ! You couldn’t make this up.
It’s an incredible balls up that will be used to demonise the whole left.
When I read the letter in the Observer I thought, yes, but racism can take many forms.
In my view, she should be strongly criticised for this. But she has acknowledged that and apologised for the offence caused.
No suspension or investigation thus required.
She has written a number of statements that were critical of Starmer and that probably has something to do with the decision to suspend her.
I found this incredible statement from John McTernan. John McTernan has got something right:
“But John McTernan, previously Tony Blair’s political secretary, called it a “swift and appropriate apology”, and it should be “accepted in the spirit it is offered”. Abbott, the first black woman ever elected to parliament, had been subjected to “vile racist abuse throughout her career”, he noted.”
(Source: Labourlist).
Diane hasn’t said or written anything wrong . Starmer is above and far beyond his rights in suspending her as is any other party members who have been involved it taking this action. They should all be sacked
Totally agree.You have struck exactly the right tone
I wwelcome the statement from Jewish Voice for Labour that is measured and accurate.
What we must also recognise is that Diane has personal experience of the hurt caused by racist predjudice. This goes deeper than taking offence at insensitive remarks.
I think that even if Diane had made her points more clearly and absent any ‘clumsiness’, she would have still been vilified and hammered – and whatever she said twisted and misrepresented – by the MSM and the Jewish newspapers and Zionist groups and all the usual suspects. Of course she would (as with Ken and Jackie and Marc and Chris et al). And THAT is the problem, as Janet pointed out.
I expect Starmer and Co will be weighing up the electoral liability of permanently removing the whip from her, and the number of votes and seats it could potentially cost them before deciding whether to or not!
And needless to say, none of her detractors will be reporting her to the police for antisemitism, as with just about EVERYONE who they have accused of antisemitism during the past seven years or so. Yerse, odd, isn’t it, that no-one making such claims about the Oxford University Labour Club – ie that antisemitism was rampant – reported any of the students to the police.
But we – on the left – all know why of course!
NB And in a list of Related Articles to a recent post by JVL, there was a link to an excellent article by Peter Oborne in January (which I obviously missed at the time) in which JVL said the following in their introduction, which says it all:
Note in passing Oborne’s reference to Labour’s double standards. Jenny Manson refused to retract, let alone apologise for her assertion on Newsnight that claims of antisemitism in the Labour Party had been exaggerated, and was exonerated; while Corbyn, whose case is all but identical, remains in exile.
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/starmers-project-doomed-to-fail/
Let’s be honest. Diane was next on the list to go anyway, in the plan to woo rich middle class voters and any Tory swing voters looking for tax breaks. This was just the kind of space the leadership needed. It’s more about selective outrage to look good. Mainstream politics is lost for workers and people on benefits. Leave it to the unions now.
I just went on the JCs website to check out an article in relation to the OULC and, as such, came across the following (which I actually heard on the BBC News yesterday – ie them quoting JVL), posted a couple of hours ago:
BBC condemned by Jewish groups for reporting of Diane Abbott’s suspension
Community bodies have voiced their outrage that the BBC led with a fringe group’s opinion
The BBC has sparked outrage by focusing on “a tiny fringe group completely unrepresentative of British Jews” when reporting on Diane Abbott’s suspension.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Leadership Council and the National Jewish Assembly have all condemned the framing of the news story in a bulletin on BBC Breakfast this morning.
In a clip which was circulated on social media, presenter Victoria Cook emphasised: “Jewish Voice for Labour has criticised the suspension of the MP Diane Abbott over her comments on racism in the Observer.”
She also quoted a JVL statement that called Abbott’s suspension “yet a further attack on our freedom to debate very important issues in the Labour Party”.
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-condemned-by-jewish-groups-for-reporting-of-diane-abbotts-suspension-5xm5IUJNxlxOFWkPY4wLtc
Oh, right, well they couldn’t let THAT one pass, could they, being WHO and WHAT they are! I haven’t checked, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some – or all – of the MSM are reporting this (apart from maybe the BBC!).
As an Irish person who experienced racism in the 1970s in London I took no offence at Ms Abbott’s letter. Different groups will experience racism in different ways. In retrospect the argument might have been better putbut her basic point is valid.
am i allowed to swear and call JVFL a f***Ing disgrace for sideswiping Dianne’s overt anti-semitic comments as “unfortunate wording”??
Good to see measured civilised responses on both sides in the comments. Thank you JVL for allowing this discussion. Agree with Dave (above) and think that we all make errors of judgement; but she is a good, campaigning MP, and this is a drive to eradicate the vibrant left of the Labour party. I cannot bring myself to vote for them at present and from a household of four paid up members, none remain.
Also came across this (posted today):
‘The UN must dismiss its ‘Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories’’
https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/all/the-un-must-dismiss-its-special-rapporteur-on-the-occupied-palestinian-territories'-39RU5Fbmr9UXQBRje8Cmqi
What other country on the planet spends so much of its time attacking and discrediting and demonising those who criticise it! It’s just relentless!
The Labour leadership have shown themselves to be nothing but establishment lackeys responding to dog whistle politics. I would even say her words were clumsy, she was just stating a fact as far as I can tell without any intent of demeaning anyone suffering horrific racial abuse. There seems to be an instant knee jerk reaction to anything said by those in Labour who don’t quite fit Keith’s mould. The UK is careering more and more to a total one party state. Just shades of the same establishment agenda.
I think this is an opportunity missed to point out the fact that racism among humans is impossible. This impossibility is proved by the fact, that all humans share exactly the same ancestors.
The divisive idea of “racism” is used by those who see profit in human division.
When I came across the JC article posted earlier this afternoon, I thought it was rather odd that the JC posted it when they did, and not yesterday or, at the very latest, first thing this morning, because the BBC were quoting JVL by at least early yesterday evening (when *I* first heard it). And I thought it even odder that in the article they cite BBC Breakfast this morning (obviously leading their readers to believe that THAT was the first occasion JVL was mentioned):
The Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Leadership Council and the National Jewish Assembly have all condemned the framing of the news story in a bulletin on BBC Breakfast this morning.
Hmm. I have little doubt that it only occurred to them – SOMEONE, that is – belatedly that this was an opportunity to attack JVL, AND the BBC – ie intimidate the BBC, that is – which would explain why the article only appeared this afternoon AND why they had to cite BBC Breakfast this morning!
Anyway, te following article on the BBC News website was posted over a day ago, and it mentions JVL, and ALSO says the following, which the JC omitted to mention for some reason:
The Jewish Voice for Labour group, which has consistently supported Mr Corbyn, said Ms Abbott’s letter should have been “drafted with more care”……
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65365978
PS And I expect it’s been all over the evening news bulletins, but earlier today Starmer said that what Diane wrote/said in her letter was antisemitic. I wonder if he has reported her to the police yet! No? Thought not!!
BLM – more than anyone else. Solidarity ????????
I feel that the official view of Dianne Abbott’s remarks based more of my belief that there are people in the JVL who are friends of hers or have worked with her. The truth is, what she is said is appalling almost playing down the suffering us Jews have suffered. For one minute forget the holocaust, there has been many other examples of Jews being persecuted in many countries and even today Jews have been picked on. Why aren’t the JVL just say it is how it is , that what she said was a slap in the face to us, FULL STOP.
To me the main (and very glaring) problem with her letter was not about who can or can’t, or does or doesn’t suffer racism. It was the statement that black people have historically suffered much misery at the hands of others (which is obviously correct) in the way that Irish, Jews and Roma apparently have not. As if the holocaust and persecutions of the Roma and Irish had never happened, or were not significant enough to count.
I agree it was a clumsy action from Diane but I’m pleased to hear this balanced response from JVL.
The labour party done the same with corbyn now its Dianne x she is correct in what she says x the Holocaust was one of the most horrific things to happen x let’s not forget that x Dianne is defo not racist x what a lot of crap x
Diane apparently says her letter was a first draft that she sent in error which accounts for the clumsy wording.
However I think she was trying to say that from her perspective there is a hierarchy of racism. The evidence of the way the media and the Labour leadership have dealt with the people who wrote the vile comments about her in the leaked WhatsApp chat compared with the way antisemitism has been approached demonstrates this. The Foorde report also draws attention to this. As by the way does the contrast between the way racism and antisemitism in the Tory and Labour Parties are dealt with. It is clear that for the media racist immigration policies are less of a concern than antisemitism and that a Labour antisemite (guilty or not) is much worse than a Tory one.
Also she is clearly right to point out that there exists injustice based on race alone and also injustice based on or including other characteristics like gender, sexuality and religion. All injustice is equally wrong. Antisemitism is a bit of a misnomer suggesting as it does that it is based on race alone yet it is applied to Jewish converts who are not Semites. If it was racially based then Arab Semites who share basically the same gene pool would be suffering injustice in common with Jewish semites.
In fact ironically they are suffering injustice at the hands of their own race. Justice is indivisible and injustice is intolerable whatever the basis for it. The article Diane was responding to was, I gather, arguing that we need to include all discrimination within racism. I would prefer to talk about and legislate against all injustice based on stereotyping. Anti Jewish prejudice, white supremacy and the policy of driving Palestinians from their homes to house Jews would then all clearly qualify as equally intolerable.
I feel furiously angry that Starmer’s Labour has made this ‘all about Jews’ again and not made the slightest defence of Travellers. I’m half Jewish and half Irish, but the Roma/Gypsies/Travellers are by far the most persecuted minority in this country. That’s not a hierarchy of racism, it’s just fact. Comedians no longer feel free to make racist jokes, except about Gypsies. Pubs can’t exclude Black people but do exclude Travellers. State persecution is rife, violence too. I believe a little of this was aired on Newsnight last night coming from of all places Huck magazine (originally for skateboarders, if I’m not mistaken).
I am also VERY disappointed that only two responses on this massive list of replies even mentions the Travellers. I would expect JVL members to look outwards.
Incidentally I’ve always had loads of time for Abbott, who was my MP in Finsbury Park and sorted out a problem with postal deliveries by getting to the sorting office at 6am and talking in a friendly way. In recent years she has come out of her workplace to offer solidarity to all kinds of small groups campaigning for justice, and we’ve always appreciated it a lot. The quality of current Labour MPs – ethically and it terms of actual ability – is abysmal, partly because Starmer can’t bear to have people around him who might show up his mediocrity. I saw this from the start in Holborn & St Pancras CLP.
In its relentless pursuit of balance and truth, the BBC invited Tracy Oberman – a minor television actor – to pronounce on the meaning of Diane Abbott’s letter for the benefit of “Newsnight” viewers.
If this was the same Tracy Oberman who paid “substantial damages” to the anthropologist Dr. Philip Proudfoot last year after falsely accusing him of anti-semitism, the BBC quite forgot to mention it.
It seems that defamation is now a qualification for punditry.
I struggle to see anything remotely amusing in this homily shared with us in today’s Guardian by Marcus Ryder (head of external consultancies at the Lenny Henry Centre for Media Diversity, chair of Rada and host of the podcast Black British Lives Matter): A few years ago I was talking to a young black girl about the prejudice women face. She turned to me and said earnestly, “I understand it, it’s like racism against women.” I fought back a laugh and replied, “Yes, it’s called sexism.” (The lesson from the Diane Abbott furore: neither false equivalence nor hierarchies of victimhood help us, 24 April). I was disappointed at this article by someone so involved in countering discrimination.
Although the way Abbott expressed her view in the Observer letter was ham-fisted, the point she was making was that being black was a characteristic more easily spotted by even the most ignorant racist. To be discriminated against you it’s neccessary to be identified as belonging to that racist’s personally hated section of society. The inclusion of redheads was I believe a careless throwaway remark but was probably aimed at arguing that discrimination is widespread. For Starmer to go nuclear on this was true to form.
1984 – here it is.
We live in a class society. The bourgeois state, which includes the main political parties, will use all methods to maintain class hegemony. One of these is what you might call displacement politics. The Tories are incapable of dealing with the cost of living problem, the poverty gap, public services, the environmental crisis – so they go for a soft target, focussing on penalising the boat people, in the hope of some kind of electoral advantage. Likewise, the Labour party has lost all credibility with the working class – so it penalises those who remind us of its one-time progressive role, preferably one at a time, so they are more vulnerable. This, too, is a calculated, intended populist act. Whatever Diane said or wrote, the party hacks are not totally stupid – they are well aware she is not anti-Semitic, though it’s convenient to pretend she is. So even if she apologises, it cuts no ice. Fairness doesn’t enter into class politics.
I think it is a pity that we allowed our statement to go up in this form. In homing in on a denial that Diane’s letter was antisemitic it discriminates against Irish and Traveller people and makes it harder to take down Starmer ( if only) for his accusation that her letter was antisemitic thus re-asserting his beloved hierarchy of racism.
No – an absolute load of nonsense from a Labour Party that seems to have adopted ‘nit-picking’ as its leading strategy instead of wooing the public with inspiring plans to address the many problems now confronting us. Note also the very ‘loose’ use of the word ‘racist’ – the simple fact is that Travellers and Irish people DO suffer prejudice rather than racism: Travellers are not a ‘race’ ……. and then there is the question of whether the Jews are a race or defined by religion…..
I agree with JVL’s analysis of the Diane Abbott situation and the appalling way the Labour Party has treated her.
The hierarchy at the Labour Party just don’t get it, and has played into the hands of the right wing media and other right leaning organizations.
About Dianes letter – some further thoughts:
it was confusing to me in that she appears to refer
to racism as in some ways “worse than prejudice” .
However surely racism is one form of prejudice –
other examples
being homophobia, distinctions as to “class”, sexism etc.?
Such prejudices have hate and extreme violence
associated with them – both recent and in the past.
The other part of Diane’s letter refers to her own experience
and reminds me of an incident a few years ago when a friend
was concerned that her son (aged 5) had been called an ugly
racist name by a classmate, a 5 year old girl. She recognised
that the other child had probably heard the word from her
parents – but decided to tell the head teacher about it. The
head teacher had a word with the offending child – who
immediately responded “But he called me a Carrot Top!” The
teacher said – “I told them both not to call each other names
in the future.”
I wonder how that little girl fared, what she is doing now
and does she have racist views? A sad and bitter song in “South Pacific”
says of race prejudice “They’ve got to be carefully taught” about children
and racism and that it is not something inherent but fostered and encouraged. The little boy has done very well I hear but no doubt still suffers from racism. I hazard a guess too that the little girl suffers from
unkind comments about her hair.